Hello Chaps

Just to keep those of you abreast of the situation I sent this email out to everybody (with a working email address) today.


I am taking the time to personally contact everybody who has placed an order for our new range of Synthetic Sparring Swords.

I feel that the delays have been unacceptable both to us and to you the end user. But please let me enlighten you as to why these swords are running 6 weeks later than their original release date.

Injection Moulding is very expensive to set up but gives a much lower price per unit than machining. The process has involved steel manufacturers, designers, tool-makers, engineers, materials manufacturers and the injection moulding factory. If there is a delay with any of the above it causes a knock on effect meaning further delays with the other parties involved.

Our original release date (the end of January 2010) was given to us by the factory. This did not transpire due to a delay at the toolmakers caused by adverse weather conditions.

We were then told early February. Again this did not transpire thanks to further delays at the toolmakers. I will add at this point that this is not simply something you can walk away from. The manufacture of Injection Moulding equipment is highly specialist so it is not a case of just finding somebody else to manufacture the moulds for us.

We finally had a finished product ready for retail at the end of February - 4 weeks later than anticipated. However, upon testing by some of the most respected members of the HEMA community it was agreed that changes needed to be made to the Longswords and the Guards. It would have been easy to release the swords as they were at this point and save the changes for a MKII sword. However, all along we have wanted to get this product right and we were not about to release something that wasn't so.

The moulds had to be transported back to the toolmakers and the designers and engineers had to come up with a new design. New materials had to be sampled to get the weight just right. There we further complications at the toolmakers as the changes to the Blades and Guards led to major changes to the injection system. All the changes have been made at considerable cost and have pushed us way beyond our original budget. But it means that you will get a better product for your money - guaranteed.

We have taken a lot of criticism about not keeping people informed but this is not as simple as it might sound. We can only relay the information we are given by the factory. So far we have provided people with this information upon ordering, via our website, over the telephone and via the main HEMA forums. If this information is floored - which it has been, we are held accountable and suffer a barrage of complaints. The alternative is to not supply any information at all. This way we can not be held accountable for giving out the wrong information. However, we then suffer a barrage of complaints about not keeping people informed. It is a no win situation for us.

Every time there is a delay it has caused frustration for our pre-order customers. I can sympathise. But it comes as an incredible blow for us as we know there will be another barrage of "you told us they would be ready by". We have tens of thousands of pounds tied up in these products. We want to see these products released more than anybody.

As it stands we have missed 4 main HEMA events where we intended to showcase our products. We have let the organisers and participants down. For this we are incredibly sorry. As I have highlighted - we can only go on the information we are given.

None of the delays have been caused by us "dragging our heels".

The good news is that the moulds have now been re-cut and are due for sampling today (2 days later than we were told). The bad news is that we have been informed that it will be 2 weeks before we will receive production quantities of our specially formulated blend of plastic (with weight increasing additives) to give us the desired product weight. This is not commercially available and has been blended specifically for our needs.

However, for those of you who can not wait the extra 2 weeks we will be running off a batch of swords at the end of this week featuring our standard blend of plastic. The swords will be approx. 60g heavier than those tested by our experts - however, it was agreed that they should be 150g heavier than those tested and the final product will achieve this weight. Thanks to their new profile these swords will also be stiffer than those tested.

If you would like to change your order to these lighter swords please contact me directly.

All along we have tried to get you the best product that we can manufacture at the right price. We are committed to this but can only work as fast as the other people in the manufacturing chain.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.


I hope this gives people a better understanding of the situation.

The modified moulds were delivered to the factory this morning so things are very much moving along...

I'd also like to apologise to Scott and Purpleheart for not being able to get the swords over to them for the Gathering. It was a great way to showcase these swords in the US and help with the event.

We have done everything in our power to get them manufactured in time but unfortunately we have been let down. Had the moulds not needed to be re-cut, you would be playing with them now...

Very frustrating all round!

Many thanks. After handling those Swedish Pentis, I *can't wait* to get my hands on something comparable.

Jake

I can relate to how difficult is to keep good prices for quality (custom) products in a small market. Thanks for the input and the effort Dangermouse!

Mexican fencers are also eager to taste these babies!

keep us posted!

Hey,

Just wondering if there is any updates on these swords?

Cheers,

Lee

reports on schola forum says people has started to recieve their shippments.

so the factory is working on making the deliveries.

Well, I sure hope they're out already, we'll be ordering alongside my good friend Chavez, and I have to say that I can't wait to hold 'em in my hands I'm sure they'll be a lovely addition to our current training equipment...

I believe they are *just* out.

Guess it's just a matter of shipping time now I've just ordered mine and now I'm waaaay too anxious...

I ordered two of these from the knight shop in the UK (along with both Boar's Tooth I.33 videos and Agilitas' Messe DVD), and they arrived today. Haven't had a chance to play with them in earnest, but they seem pretty good for a training tool, and especially for the price.

I do have two things I'm disappointed about though.

First off, the blades are white, not metallic grey. Not the end of the world, but I partly got them for doing displays in security-sensitive venues (I might have a gig on parliament hill in a while), and I would prefer that they look more real from a distance. As an aside, the grips are also dark grey, not brown/beige, but I don't really care about that.

Second, the disc pommels don't screw on to a point where they align with the blade. They came with a little note saying to file down the tang until it lines up better, but I'm actually pretty sure that won't work, since it's the thread alignment that's a problem. The tangs aren't touching the bottom of the pommel nut as it is. I'll need to put in a thin washer of some sort instead. Also, the difference is not consistent between the two swords, so I'll need two different washers. I suppose washers that compress would work as well, but there's not a lot of room.

Don't get me wrong though, I'll probably end up buying more. I don't know if I can get the scent stopper pommel on the short sword (it will look goofy) but I'll probably lean that way if I can. I'm also going to investigate if there's a decent way to colour the blades.

But for most stuff I'll probably stick with my Alchem "scarf swords." I don't think that they are any less safe as long as the blade edges are maintained and blunt is put on the tip (I use darkwoods, or my own made of scrap UHMW plastic). They are more expensive, but they have about the same flex and are made of wood and steel, and look a little more realistic.

the blades are supposed to take spraypaint well. So try some grafitti

Thanks for letting me know! Is there a particular type of paint that is recommended?

There is a risk that when you spray paint them that the paint will start coming off on other people's kit as you hit them.

While wearing my nice red, hand-sewn gamebson, I would not want to face spray painted weapons.

Or the spray paint won't come off. It's a risk to keep in mind though.

Cheers,
Steven

That is one risk I am concerned about. I have an old breastplate that was spraypainted years ago and still sheds paint onto my hands when handling it. Oddly, it doesn't seem to leave paint on clothes.

I'm also concerned that spraypaint (or any paint really) may alter the chemical characteristics of the nylon or whatever it is. I don't know much about that kind of thing, but I did destroy an art project by spraypainting it. It had been glued with a hot glue gun, and the paint ate the glue, and the whole thing fell apart. I'd hate for my swords to melt, or become brittle, or something else stupid like that.

@Craig
Spraypaint (as all sprays that come in a pressurized can) are mixed with solvents and propellants & other stabilizing chemicals. Usually when you spray paint on a surface it lands mixed with these chemicals. The solvents & propellants are volatile and usually evaporate in a couple minutes leaving only the paint.
Most probably the accident with your art project wasn't caused by the paint itself, but by the solvent it was mixed with. The solvent must have been compatible with the the hot glue you used, and dis-solved it.

Safest way to see if 2 chemical substances react badly is to try just a little bit of the sprayed one and wait an hour or so to see what happens.
Also, when you apply spray the stuff its PREFFERABLE to keep the spraycan as far as possible from the surface to be painted. This reduces the amount of solvent & chemicals that gets plastered along with the paint.

Carlos (who majored in Chemical Engineering)

P.S. Also, the paint on your old breastplate: I bet you a beer its oil-based so it clings to the body fats&oil in your hand's skin; while leaving your grease-free clothes alone. (unless its the tiny but different electrostatic charges in both surfaces, but thats not my area of expertise...but at least I showed off the big words I learned at college )

How are people finding these now that they've had them a while?

We have several in our club, both the white final version and some of the grey prototypes I managed to get on the cheap.

I have to say I preffer the grey blades over the white, but that's nothing more than asthetics.

They are definitely better than the shinai we were using for sparring. There's a lot less bounce, but I find they 'wobble' a hell of a lot and for techniques like 'doubling' it makes it all but impossible to execute properly. The bendiness also makes some parries useless as the attacks just push the blade aside.

I've also found that drilling techniques, like the Krump, can cause the blades to maintain the bend slightly so it needs to be straightend by hand. You can get around this by altering the technique slightly, but that's not something I really want people doing.

It's also quite annoying that the blades have to be straightened at the beginning of every session due to them taking a bend when being stored. The only way I've found to keep them straight is by lying the blade, sans fittings, on a perfectly flat surface, which isn't really that practical. One of the white blades has developed a dog leg kink in it I just can't straighten out no matter how hard I try.

Weight wise they are a bit light, but I'm not too bothered about that when running a class with a wide variety of people.

I really hope they manage to get the stiffness improved. Thrusting is such a small part of my system that I don't tend to worry too much about flex, it's nice to have but the current level of flex is over board IMO as you still need protection. I'll still buy more, as is, but would really like to see them much stiffer.

We also found that they tend to get grated badly when they hit the mesh on the fencing masks. No biggy, as it's easily dealt with, though the sabre mask cover prevent this a lot, but that an expence to protect someone elses kit. Does mean however, that I doubt a blade will last a full year if being used for drilling and sparring.

Any one else had these issues, or others we haven't experienced?

Well, I finally got a chance to try 'em during a HEMA event we had this weekend.
I think they're quite cool, but they still have some issues.
Bendiness was to be expected, due to the material and the safety factor, but I too would like them to be just a little bit stiffer. I also had to straighten my waster a couple of times and I realized that the point had bent somehow towards the false edge (I'm not sure this is clear, but I don't know how else to put it ) and I couldn't really get it straight. Also, the guard was a bit shaky as the blade needed some filing in order to get the pommel in contact with the handle so as to get everything nice and tight. Minor issue nevertheless.
But the big problem is the guard, as mine was broken after about 6 or maybe 7 hours of sparring, and IMO that's a very short lifespan for such an important piece of the sword (specially when the spare piece is around $20 ), I think that the quillons are a bit too thin, because though only mine broke, the others were severely damaged and were about to break. Hopefully they'll solve this problem, as I really think it's a tool with great training applications.

Howdy folks, I'm back! After a lot of work in the southern states and some recovery time after a vehicle accident I have some news both good and bad; Atlanta Cutlery had the wasters in this past weekend but they sold out, However I have been told they are ordering a lot more for the next shipment! I know I promised some folks I would give them a heads up when they came in (I failed miserably because I received the e-mail Friday and they sold out Saturday) but I have had quite a bit more to deal with than keeping on top of my e-mails lately Now the question is when will they get the next shipment??

Hi Sebastian, our group had the same problem. I'll bet you have one of the old guards. The company has since upgraded the guards and offered to replace the old ones for free, which I think is excellent! I haven't tested the new guards yet but Purpleheart has sent one to me that should be here on Friday. I'm very hopeful!

I just received mine last night, they feel good in sparring. I like the balance. As far as the blade color, leather dye should penetrate the plastic and not ware off. I plan to test it this weekend. There maybe sum fading over time as the color penetrates deeper into the plastic and disperses the color.

John O'Connor
Forte Swordplay

I have two of the MRL "limited edition" gray-bladed swords, if anyone would like to purchase them drop me a line (bought them for myself as samples).

As a solution to problems with lose pommels, Lock-tight has worked well. I found this weekend I had no problem releasing and unscrewing the pommel with a quick twist.


John O'Connor
Forte Swordplay

John, I meant to ask this yesterday when I was at the park, how does that solution work from a long term perspective. I'm worried about glue residue builing up in the threads and eventually running into a problem.

Do you have experience in that regard?

Thanks,
Steven

For now the build up does not seem to be much of a problem, at least not the the particular brand of lock-tight. It needed a thin coating has relocked now a few times after the seal was broken and the pommel was reseated.

John O'Connor
Forte Swordplay

One of my guys managed to get hold of one of the 'improved' blades at fightcamp. It's not one of the 'pro' blades, but the new mix seems to be doing the job. It is much stiffer, with only the weak having any real flex. That's not to say it doesn't bend in the strong, it does, but it takes much more force.

We only have the one at the moment, and I'm looking forward to getting some more so I can see how things work with a pair.

I certainly think this newer mix will barely effect any of our techniques.